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president obama and house speaker john boehner finally on speaking terms. but the question is are they speaking each other's language yet when it comes to the fiscal cliff? with just 26 days to go before the country officially goes over the edge, there are reports a growing course of republicans are pressuring house leaders to cave on tax hikes for the wealthy, this following president obama and speaker boehner's first phone call in days with both sides staying mum on the details. this afternoon president obama's fiscal photo-op off the day takes him to the suburban home of a middle class families in virginia, one of the thousands who responded to the
president obama and house speaker john boehner finally on speaking terms. but the question is are they speaking each other's language yet when it comes to the fiscal cliff? with just 26 days to go before the country officially goes over the edge, there are reports a growing course of republicans are pressuring house leaders to cave on tax hikes for the wealthy, this following president obama and speaker boehner's first phone call in days with both sides staying mum on the details. this...
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Dec 6, 2012
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president obama and house speaker john boehner finally on speaking terms. but the question is are they speaking each other's language yet when it comes to the fiscal cliff? with just 26 days to go before the country officially goes over the edge, there are reports a growing course of republicans are pressuring house leaders to cave on tax hikes for the wealthy, this following president obama and speaker boehner's first phone
president obama and house speaker john boehner finally on speaking terms. but the question is are they speaking each other's language yet when it comes to the fiscal cliff? with just 26 days to go before the country officially goes over the edge, there are reports a growing course of republicans are pressuring house leaders to cave on tax hikes for the wealthy, this following president obama and speaker boehner's first phone
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Dec 2, 2012
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. >> so let's go to photos of obama and boehner from the first and only face-to-face meeting on fiscal cliff talks since the election. start with boehner, raising his eyebrow, what does that tell you? >> he's got a critical eye. he's going, i'm watching you. and so his eyes go off to the side with that little critical eye. you see it lifting up on that left-hand corner. >> okay. let's switch gears here. there's a photo of mitt romney. this is the one i really wanted you to look at. mitt romney having lunch at the white house this week. bitter rivals now trying to make nice, at least for a photo op. what does this photo tell you -- how is president obama treating the man he just beat? >> well, let me share something with you. this was a painful picture to look at because you can see he's actually having an emotional reaction -- >> do we have the picture -- there it is. let's put the picture up. i'm sorry, susan, go ahead. >> his chin wrinkles up -- this is not the clip. we were talking about the boehner one we just had. >> i'm talking about mitt romney and president obama meeting. >> ok
. >> so let's go to photos of obama and boehner from the first and only face-to-face meeting on fiscal cliff talks since the election. start with boehner, raising his eyebrow, what does that tell you? >> he's got a critical eye. he's going, i'm watching you. and so his eyes go off to the side with that little critical eye. you see it lifting up on that left-hand corner. >> okay. let's switch gears here. there's a photo of mitt romney. this is the one i really wanted you to...
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Nov 29, 2012
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even with the clock ticking it's almost two week since president obama and john boehner met in person. nbc news confirms two leaders spoke by phone for 15 minutes last night a call described by politico as short and curt. boehner gave his state on the current talks a moment ago. >> no substancetive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over past two weeks. all eyes are on the white house. the country doesn't need a v victory lap it needs leader. >> behind the scenes of the contours of a deal are starting to take shape, a trillion plus dollars in tax heights, entitlements of $400 billion and 1.2 trillion in spending cuts to offset the dreaded sequester. if the phoners haven't been gabfests the president is chatting up other folks including small business owners, middle class americans and mitt romney-loving ceos. if awkward meetings are par for the course in washington, the president's one today takes the cake. later this hour, president obama will sit down for a post-election chitchat with the prince of awkward, the king of tilted conversation and u
even with the clock ticking it's almost two week since president obama and john boehner met in person. nbc news confirms two leaders spoke by phone for 15 minutes last night a call described by politico as short and curt. boehner gave his state on the current talks a moment ago. >> no substancetive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over past two weeks. all eyes are on the white house. the country doesn't need a v victory lap it needs leader....
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Dec 7, 2012
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obama is jewels, boehner is pumpkin and the tea party is yolanda. they're locked in a tense standoff so potentially apock liptic they have guns pointed at each other while they appear very cool. the diner has come to a standstill, which representing the nation awaiting the outcome. like those diners robbed of their wallets and peace, the nation faces uncertainly times ahead. to help sort it out we have jared ber design and peter. let's talk about these two things. unemployment and the one on one game in washington right now. does one have anything to do with the other, jared? >> well, yes, they do, although i'm still trying to work out this movie metaphor, so give me a second. as the labor market improves and i agree with you that things were definitely better in november than we expected, given the lack of apparent damage from the storm at least according to the bureau, as things improve and the underlying economy continues to show more momentum, the job market too slowly in my view but it is improving. the costs, the opportunity costs to use an ec
obama is jewels, boehner is pumpkin and the tea party is yolanda. they're locked in a tense standoff so potentially apock liptic they have guns pointed at each other while they appear very cool. the diner has come to a standstill, which representing the nation awaiting the outcome. like those diners robbed of their wallets and peace, the nation faces uncertainly times ahead. to help sort it out we have jared ber design and peter. let's talk about these two things. unemployment and the one on...
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president obama and house speaker boehner took the fight to the podiums. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for just a handful of republicans in congress to hold middle-class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. that -- that doesn't make sense. >> it's not a serious proposal. and so, right now, we're almost nowhere. >> joining me now is nancy cook, budget and tax correspondent for national journal. welcome back, nice to see you. >> you, too. >> let's take a look at white house propose. $1.6 trillion in tax increases, $400 billion in savings. is that how this $1.6 trillion is going to be reached? >> the way the $1.6 trillion will be reached is primarily through the expiration of the bush-era tax cuts for the top 2% of taxpayers. then there would be some other increases in taxes on investment income, again for people above people making more than $250,000, and also some capping of deductions. so there's a, you know, a couple different ways that those will be reached. but the bulk of that does come th
president obama and house speaker boehner took the fight to the podiums. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for just a handful of republicans in congress to hold middle-class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. that -- that doesn't make sense. >> it's not a serious proposal. and so, right now, we're almost nowhere. >> joining me now is nancy cook, budget and tax correspondent for national...
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president obama is making it clear to john boehner who aappears to be anyway public denial to try to stall time to prevent that from happening. >> is that the goal whether he comes out and has press conferences like that, is he posturing? what is he doing, if the end has already been decided. >> i don't know if it's been decided, but there's inevitablity here. the way it works is this is not an even fight where the republicans and democrats start in a certain way. if nothing happens, taxes go up at the new year, and that's a problem for republicans. it's a better hand for democrats. the alternatives is taxes go up for everyone or the top 2%. that's an inevitable reality. i think john boehner has a lot of completing political interest here. he has to worry about a very difficult caucus. we have people on the very right who aren't ready to raise taxes on the rich. there's a moment of reckoning sooner or later. >> the other part is entitlement reform. we've heard some details about what they might be considering, you know, means testing, changing the means testing, raising the age of el
president obama is making it clear to john boehner who aappears to be anyway public denial to try to stall time to prevent that from happening. >> is that the goal whether he comes out and has press conferences like that, is he posturing? what is he doing, if the end has already been decided. >> i don't know if it's been decided, but there's inevitablity here. the way it works is this is not an even fight where the republicans and democrats start in a certain way. if nothing...
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boehner and obama have met before. the summer of 2011. they put a lot of specifics on paper. when boehner couldn't get backing from his conference. >> how close is this to that is >> it is a broad outline, but there is a lot of negotiation. even members of the congress didn't see this in advance. this was really an opening bid. it is best seen as really a response to pressure. but people saying where's our plan. you've got to put a plan out there to begin the negotiation. >> thank you. >>> deal or no deal. we're on the edge of our seats. washington, the fiscal cliff suspense is killing us. 29 days in counting until our taxes go up and across the board spending cuts. we still don't know any of the details. instead we're getting lots of mixed messages as to what exactly is going to happen, where things stand. >> there has been progress. >> right now i would say we're nowhere. >> i'm increasingly pessimistic. >> so tonight, two men who have lots of experience dealing with lawmakers. paul begala, david frum, former adviser to president george w. bush. gentlemen, nice to have you
boehner and obama have met before. the summer of 2011. they put a lot of specifics on paper. when boehner couldn't get backing from his conference. >> how close is this to that is >> it is a broad outline, but there is a lot of negotiation. even members of the congress didn't see this in advance. this was really an opening bid. it is best seen as really a response to pressure. but people saying where's our plan. you've got to put a plan out there to begin the negotiation. >>...
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but, ultimately, this is going to require an agreement between president obama, speaker boehner, senator mcconnell, senator harry reid and leader pelosi and in some sense it is going to be the two main players are president obama and speaker boehner. my concern has been this looks like campaign time and the election wasn't over and we didn't have the prospect of going over the fiscal cliff. today the house republicans in a big development put out a plan and i am sure it is not on its face acceptable to the president and the democrats here but interestingly it has the same total number of savings and tax revenues as the president does over 10 years, $2.2 trillion. that is a lot more spending and entitlement reform in the president plan -- republican land and the democratic plan but now they can fill things in and the president has to be at the table to close the deal. he has the mandate to do it. >>neil: part of the mandate means both sides should give a little. obviously the republican plan has a debt commission feel to it but beside that i am wondering if it and tough and i know you are
but, ultimately, this is going to require an agreement between president obama, speaker boehner, senator mcconnell, senator harry reid and leader pelosi and in some sense it is going to be the two main players are president obama and speaker boehner. my concern has been this looks like campaign time and the election wasn't over and we didn't have the prospect of going over the fiscal cliff. today the house republicans in a big development put out a plan and i am sure it is not on its face...
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did president obama disspeaker john boehner in a comment today. >> on the conservative side of the republican party today. with senator demint speaking on the idea that $800 billion of tax increases were offered. but he got the backing of mitch mcconnel. take a listen to what he had to say. >> i think it sis important tha the house leadership is trying to mov move it forward. i had hoped that we would be accomplishing more in the real talks. but i can tell you, there is nothing going on privately that is not going on publicly. even as he has to deal with this rebellion. he has to deal with democrats and harry reid's comments today give you a sense of where they are coming from. >> they have to come up with specific revenue. and they refuse to do that. it is a simple question of arithmetic. you can't get from here to there unless you raise the rates. so as you know in washington, a rebellion in the ranks like this could be a problem. but in the spohort-term, if it remains constrained. it could be a good negotiating term. he could say i have offered everything that i have and still get this thi
did president obama disspeaker john boehner in a comment today. >> on the conservative side of the republican party today. with senator demint speaking on the idea that $800 billion of tax increases were offered. but he got the backing of mitch mcconnel. take a listen to what he had to say. >> i think it sis important tha the house leadership is trying to mov move it forward. i had hoped that we would be accomplishing more in the real talks. but i can tell you, there is nothing...
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president obama has new words of speaker boehner and the republicans in his first tv interview since the election and since the fiscal cliff stalemate started. no deal until republicans drop the opposition to raising tax rates on the wealthy. that's the president's message. we'll play the interview for you, parts of it, and also hear from democratic congressman adam schiff. from the president shooting down speaker boehner proposal to now conservative groups going aafter him, who are boehner's allies at this point. where is governor jan brewer. the mystery about the out of state business trip and why his own spokesperson says he can't disclose where she is. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. now we need a little bit more..
president obama has new words of speaker boehner and the republicans in his first tv interview since the election and since the fiscal cliff stalemate started. no deal until republicans drop the opposition to raising tax rates on the wealthy. that's the president's message. we'll play the interview for you, parts of it, and also hear from democratic congressman adam schiff. from the president shooting down speaker boehner proposal to now conservative groups going aafter him, who are boehner's...
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peter: president obama and john boehner in front of cameras to make their cases in the battle over the fiscal cliff. the speaker said he is willing to move forward with negotiations in good faith after republicans rejected the president's first formal offer yesterday as being short on spending cuts, but it doesn't sound like anyone has put the brakes on the road to the coin. >> let's not kid ourselves. i am not trying to make this more difficult. i have been very guarded. i don't want to make it harder for me or the president or members of both parties to find common ground. >> this is not some run-of-the-mill debate, not about which political party can come out on top in negotiations and all of us get out of our comfort zones to make that happen. i am willing to do at and i am hopeful enough members of congress in both parties are willing to do that as well. >> the president's plan repeat his demand for $1.6 trillion over ten years on families making $250,000 a year and includes $400 billion in cuts, savings in medicare and medicaid and other entitlements over the same period. the pre
peter: president obama and john boehner in front of cameras to make their cases in the battle over the fiscal cliff. the speaker said he is willing to move forward with negotiations in good faith after republicans rejected the president's first formal offer yesterday as being short on spending cuts, but it doesn't sound like anyone has put the brakes on the road to the coin. >> let's not kid ourselves. i am not trying to make this more difficult. i have been very guarded. i don't want to...
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i'm glad president obama's meeting with simon. i'd love for him to meet with john john boehner. [laughter] megyn: simon's got a lot of good ideas. were you in that meeting with the unions and the progressive groups that the president had -- >> no. i was in a different meeting. they can't meet with all at the same time. megyn: were you in the meeting that the progressive groups emerged from feeling, quote, very happy where they felt that the white house with us not going -- was not going to offer any spending cuts? they felt those programs were all going to be protected? >> no, no, i don't think that's what was said after that meeting. i think what the democrats want is balance. i think they're willing to give. i mean, in the president's budget now is $300 billion of additional cuts in medicare, and this is why what marc's saying is just not true. the democrats have shown a willingness to give on all four of the places we think we need to give. it's been the republicans who have been intransigent on tax increases and defense cuts. if we can come to a deal like we did in 2011, we
i'm glad president obama's meeting with simon. i'd love for him to meet with john john boehner. [laughter] megyn: simon's got a lot of good ideas. were you in that meeting with the unions and the progressive groups that the president had -- >> no. i was in a different meeting. they can't meet with all at the same time. megyn: were you in the meeting that the progressive groups emerged from feeling, quote, very happy where they felt that the white house with us not going -- was not going...
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obama insisting they go up, boehner insisting they don't. >> listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. this is a moment for adult leadership. >> reporter: and taxes aren't the only sticking point. republicans are demanding the president come forward with a plan to limit spending on medicare and social security, something many democrats say is just not acceptable. >> i didn't have my own card with me. jill wouldn't let me have one. >> reporter: vice president biden got into the act today, too, taking a break from christmas shopping and snacking at costco to urge congress to extend middle class tax cuts. >> i think it's important congress acts now. i mean, right now. >> reporter: can mitt romney, with all his business experience, play a role on brokering a deal? well, don't count on it, diane. the president did not ask for his help today and the two simply agreed to keep in touch. and for now, nothing more. >> all right, thank you, jonathan karl. >>> and now, we move onto two towns that had reason to rejoice today. two tickets wo
obama insisting they go up, boehner insisting they don't. >> listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. this is a moment for adult leadership. >> reporter: and taxes aren't the only sticking point. republicans are demanding the president come forward with a plan to limit spending on medicare and social security, something many democrats say is just not acceptable. >> i didn't have my own card with me. jill wouldn't let me have one....
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at that point i wouldn't be surprised if president obama, john boehner, and other key folks are actually locked up somewhere in maybe camp david, maybe at the white house. that's when the big talks will start. not now but in the next couple of weeks. >> back to the power move as it's described by speaker boehner. who are the strongest allies. we've seen paul ryan all but vanish here other than when we put the picture up on the committee and who is on it. who are the allies supporting speaker boehner that are team players? >> there was a criticism in the suspicion about a year ago that even some of john boehner's top deputies weren't always on board. that came about during the debt ceiling debate of 2011 where there was a lot of suspicion where eric cantor the house majority leader was on the same page with house speaker john boehner. right now as we see it seems like the republican leadership is completely unified, and that does end up bolstering john boehner's ability to make a deal or enforce discipline with the party. >> very interesting. thank you very much. governors who met with th
at that point i wouldn't be surprised if president obama, john boehner, and other key folks are actually locked up somewhere in maybe camp david, maybe at the white house. that's when the big talks will start. not now but in the next couple of weeks. >> back to the power move as it's described by speaker boehner. who are the strongest allies. we've seen paul ryan all but vanish here other than when we put the picture up on the committee and who is on it. who are the allies supporting...
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president obama and john boehner. even all sides of the party are excluded. >>> with 25 days before taxes go up for nearly every single american, what effect will the jobs report have on the fiscal standoff? we'll get live remarks from john boehner who is going to try to use the jobs report to the republican's advantage. representative, let's start with the november jobs report numbers. they look very good, good news overall for the koirnlt tree. but speaker boehner said this, the democrats plan to slow walk our economy to the edge of the fiscal cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that
president obama and john boehner. even all sides of the party are excluded. >>> with 25 days before taxes go up for nearly every single american, what effect will the jobs report have on the fiscal standoff? we'll get live remarks from john boehner who is going to try to use the jobs report to the republican's advantage. representative, let's start with the november jobs report numbers. they look very good, good news overall for the koirnlt tree. but speaker boehner said this, the...
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the republicans need to stick to the boehner rule. a dollar of spending cuts for every dollar in spending increases. why give in on taxes and the fiscal cliff fight when you will have all the leverage. megyn: simon? >> in the rasmussen poll that came out today the republicans lost 10 points since the election in the congressional generic fight. they are losing this economic argument right now. if they pull what mark is saying, you are going to see the republican party's numbers in the 20s. they have no leverage on this thing. >> not going to happen. megyn: we'll leave it at that. thank you both. just ahead. a much more somber note. new warning about the sarin gas threat in syria. city drivers claim a class action that the traffic cameras are actually rigged. soot whole world is watching and the president of the united states made clear there will be consequences if the assad regime makes a terrible mistake by using these chemical weapons on their own people. megyn: that was leon panetta with a warning that the united states and our al
the republicans need to stick to the boehner rule. a dollar of spending cuts for every dollar in spending increases. why give in on taxes and the fiscal cliff fight when you will have all the leverage. megyn: simon? >> in the rasmussen poll that came out today the republicans lost 10 points since the election in the congressional generic fight. they are losing this economic argument right now. if they pull what mark is saying, you are going to see the republican party's numbers in the...
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i think john boehner has to go back to his members and say look, president obama won the election, polling suggests we republicans lose if we go over the cliff, and i got this one thing that's going to mitigate your unhappiness over the fact that we're moving up rates on the wealthiest americans. he needs the third part to sell the whole package. >> and david, there is a jobs report today which sort of mixed news for everyone. it's a good number, down to 7.7%, unemployment, 146,000 new jobs added but the downside is that fewer people were in the labor force a lot fewer, because people gave up on even trying. >> i think this is one of the more provocative questions and get to it on sunday, which is, are we too focused on the debt. are we not focused enough on what the government can be doing to try to spur job growth? beyond just -- >> there was a stimulus piece in the offer from the white house that was laughed at by the -- >> laughed at but could end up surviving. one of the things about the president's initial offer is it may have sent a bad signal to conservatives but it did have the ef
i think john boehner has to go back to his members and say look, president obama won the election, polling suggests we republicans lose if we go over the cliff, and i got this one thing that's going to mitigate your unhappiness over the fact that we're moving up rates on the wealthiest americans. he needs the third part to sell the whole package. >> and david, there is a jobs report today which sort of mixed news for everyone. it's a good number, down to 7.7%, unemployment, 146,000 new...
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the "new york times" reporting that house speaker john boehner wants to speak only to president obama out of public view. though we've just learned that boehner is holding a news conference at 11:00 this morning eastern time. the fight, though, still very public. vice president joe biden is meeting with a middle class family. and yesterday president obama met with a virginia family. tax hikes for the rich are nonnegotiable. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is for families like this one. >> joining me now is barry, msnbc political contributor and editor for grio. hello, guys. >> perry, i'm wondering if these new unemployment numbers add to the president's leverage? >> i think they do. the big thing is the election. but the jobs numbers suggest that the economy is doing well and it cuts against the republican argument that raising taxes on the rich with would hurt the economy and the economy is fragile. the numbers though that the
the "new york times" reporting that house speaker john boehner wants to speak only to president obama out of public view. though we've just learned that boehner is holding a news conference at 11:00 this morning eastern time. the fight, though, still very public. vice president joe biden is meeting with a middle class family. and yesterday president obama met with a virginia family. tax hikes for the rich are nonnegotiable. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package...
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president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a week. white house press secretary jay carney i find very interesting refused to characterize the conversation. let's bring in congressman chris van hollen of maryland tonight. good to have you with us. >> always good to when with you. >> you bet. are democrats united on this rate issue? we keep hearing it. now that boehner is starting to move a little bit and say that the money is going to come from the wealthy, yet he hasn't identified these reductions, where do democrats stand on rates? is that the bottom line? the rates have to go up? >> the rates have to go up, ed. it's a matter of simple math, as the president has said. which is why in the house of representatives the democrats filed what's called a discharge petition that would require the speaker to bring to the floor of the house the senate bill, the senate democratic bill that immediately would extend tax relief to all middle income taxpayers and would ask higher income folks to pay more. if we can get about 26 republicans to put t
president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a week. white house press secretary jay carney i find very interesting refused to characterize the conversation. let's bring in congressman chris van hollen of maryland tonight. good to have you with us. >> always good to when with you. >> you bet. are democrats united on this rate issue? we keep hearing it. now that boehner is starting to move a little bit and say that the money is going to come from...
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. >>> casper, deep blue, bird, jordan, mcenroe, coners, boehner, obama. it is friday, december 7th, this is "now." >> joining me today, chief economic correspondent for politico ben white, editor at large for salon.com, joe walsh, queen bee and editing manager of the grio.com, and buzz fooeds.com ben smith. the labor department delivered a december surprise, which might just alter the debate over the fiscal cliff. despite predictions of stalled job creation in november in superstorm sandy and looming fiscal cliff, the nation added 146,000 jobs last month, and unemployment ticked down to 7.7%. while november's figures are higher than expected, september and october were revised down 16 and 33,000 jobs respectively. chief economists for moody's analytics mark zandi cautions november may see a downward revision but the numbers are a good sign. >> bottom line, feels like the job market is holding firm in the face of sandy and fiscal cliff concerns, so that's good news. >> surprising exactly no one, the white house and republicans had different spin on the num
. >>> casper, deep blue, bird, jordan, mcenroe, coners, boehner, obama. it is friday, december 7th, this is "now." >> joining me today, chief economic correspondent for politico ben white, editor at large for salon.com, joe walsh, queen bee and editing manager of the grio.com, and buzz fooeds.com ben smith. the labor department delivered a december surprise, which might just alter the debate over the fiscal cliff. despite predictions of stalled job creation in november...
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obama sends chief negotiator treasury secretary tim gheiter for individual meetings with each member of the conditioningal leadership which includes speaker john boehner, perhaps the most important player here. the meetings mark the beginning of the real negotiations. that doesn't mean the posturing stage is behind us. one capitol hill veteran, former fdic, sheila bair, a long-time staffer by the way who butted heads with geithner in the past, made this interesting observation to david gregory about tim geithner saying he's not the right guy for the white house to be sending in for these talks. >> do you think tim geithner, secretary geithner is the right person to lead the negotiations for the administration sf. >> i don't know. i don't think this is tim's strong suit. i think tim was given the job of treasury secretary because he understood the banking system. he's not a budget guy. he's not a tax guy. he's never really worked in this sphere. >> geithner is leading these talks for two reasons. he and the president are very close. they simply click. secondly, boehner likes him. that
obama sends chief negotiator treasury secretary tim gheiter for individual meetings with each member of the conditioningal leadership which includes speaker john boehner, perhaps the most important player here. the meetings mark the beginning of the real negotiations. that doesn't mean the posturing stage is behind us. one capitol hill veteran, former fdic, sheila bair, a long-time staffer by the way who butted heads with geithner in the past, made this interesting observation to david gregory...
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the call unlike the night when president obama called john boehner on election day and john boehner didn't answer his call. i think that you have to have both parties willing to engage with each other and talk to each other. looking back at the 1980s, for example, when ronald reagan was president and tip o'neill was speaker of the house, they didn't agree but they sit down and talk and negotiate and compromise and today's republican party so hijacked by the right wing they're incapable of agreement. >> let's put aside the right wing here. we know that speaker boehner purged some of those seen as not being team players within his own party and we'll discuss the fact he's taken a hit for that. beyond the right wing or whatever you have numbers. you have exit polling. you have pew research poll that shows where the american people stand. if all of the people are there to represent us, meaning the people who are watching right now and the panel included here, we are all americans, we pay taxes, then why isn't this work getting done? >> well, just look at speaker boehner's fiscal cliff p
the call unlike the night when president obama called john boehner on election day and john boehner didn't answer his call. i think that you have to have both parties willing to engage with each other and talk to each other. looking back at the 1980s, for example, when ronald reagan was president and tip o'neill was speaker of the house, they didn't agree but they sit down and talk and negotiate and compromise and today's republican party so hijacked by the right wing they're incapable of...
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i won't go there but i want a >> that doesn't have the classic -- >> when do president obama and john boehner do the gangnam style dance and then we'll be in a better place. >> you know, i want to say quickly, that reminds me of al simpson doing that, say what you will about him. he has a showman's flare. when he retired from the senate in 1996, he came up to the kennedy school in cambridge and he was working there with robert reich and got together and pitched a public television show. it's alan simpson's 6'7", robert reich, 4'10" and called it the long and the short of it. >> i know you're not making it up. >> comedy and politics, road trips. i watched it! senior in high school. i even attended a taping. >> last question. will you boldly go on the record right now and right here to support a common sense solution. >> everyone has a different deaf situation of common sense. that's too easy. >> neil irwin, thank you for joining us. >>> ahead, washington may be stuck in the neutral but the rest of the country is moving forward. new numbers of pot and gay marriage will have you talking.
i won't go there but i want a >> that doesn't have the classic -- >> when do president obama and john boehner do the gangnam style dance and then we'll be in a better place. >> you know, i want to say quickly, that reminds me of al simpson doing that, say what you will about him. he has a showman's flare. when he retired from the senate in 1996, he came up to the kennedy school in cambridge and he was working there with robert reich and got together and pitched a public...
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Dec 3, 2012
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you've got a existed in in president obama versus a lose her in john boehner. and here is boehner again yesterday, on fox news sunday saying, when he looked at the president's proposal, oh my god. >> i was flabbergasted. >> flabbergasted. >> he can't be serious. i just have never seen anything like it. we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year three weeks have been wasted with the nonsense. who is flabbergasted anymore? have you ever heard that word? >> peter: an old word. >> 1920s called. they weren't there. >> bill: yeah, my great aunt madeline used to say, "flabbergasted" she was 90 then. >> i was waiting for him to say we got beat, it was a slobberknocker. >> maybe they say that in the bar. the other thing is t flabbergasted? he has known about this plan. you can check it out. this is nothing to be flabbergasted about. this was out there long since the election and ever since. >> a non--serious proposal. the president was asking for $1.6 trillion worth of new revenue over 10 years, twice as much aziz been asking for in public. stimu
you've got a existed in in president obama versus a lose her in john boehner. and here is boehner again yesterday, on fox news sunday saying, when he looked at the president's proposal, oh my god. >> i was flabbergasted. >> flabbergasted. >> he can't be serious. i just have never seen anything like it. we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year three weeks have been wasted with the nonsense. who is flabbergasted anymore? have you ever heard that word?...
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a senior administration official told us that president obama and john boehner had a phone wallace night and politico was reporting that the phone call was curt. they said on the call john boehner told the president to leave the tax cuts for the rich alone. the president says he doesn't want to do that. he's going to stick with his plan to raise $1.6 billion in revenue and if republicans have something better they should be specific now. eric cantor said republicans are already going further than they did in the same spot in 2010. >> we have done our part. we have put revenues on the table, something we didn't do two years ago during the debt ceiling negotiations. >> we've seen some positive developments in the last several weeks, in terms of what republicans have been saying about the need for revenue as part of a balanced package. the president will continue to make the case that that is essential. >> reporter: so both sides saying revenue is on the table, now the fight is obviously to figure out where it's going to come from, how the government is going to make more money. democrats w
a senior administration official told us that president obama and john boehner had a phone wallace night and politico was reporting that the phone call was curt. they said on the call john boehner told the president to leave the tax cuts for the rich alone. the president says he doesn't want to do that. he's going to stick with his plan to raise $1.6 billion in revenue and if republicans have something better they should be specific now. eric cantor said republicans are already going further...
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. >> reporter: boehner and president obama said they are optimistic that a deal can be reached by christmas. >>> turning overseas to egypt, where opponents of president mohamed morsi are calling for a second revolution. morsi is addressing his people today. a speech in which he's expected to discuss his move last week to seize near absolute power. thousands have been on the streets of cairo protesting that move since. morsi is showing no signs, though, of backing down. >>> and with the conflict in syria showing no signs of ending, the obama administration is reportedly considering deeper intervention there. this morning's "new york times" says no decisions have been made. but several options are being looked at, including providing arms to anti-government fighters. a decision on whether to deploy surface-to-air missiles in neighboring areas is likely next week. >>> and a major milestone is expected at the u.n. today, when the general assembly votes to give statehood to the palestinians. this comes despite strong opposition for u.s. officials over fears that such a move could harm peace nego
. >> reporter: boehner and president obama said they are optimistic that a deal can be reached by christmas. >>> turning overseas to egypt, where opponents of president mohamed morsi are calling for a second revolution. morsi is addressing his people today. a speech in which he's expected to discuss his move last week to seize near absolute power. thousands have been on the streets of cairo protesting that move since. morsi is showing no signs, though, of backing down....
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as soon as boehner and obama walk out of the white house, which i believe they'll do at some stage over the next month, as soon as that happens, everything is going to flip the other way. i'd like to find a way to play the market, but i think for long-term investors, valuation gets more and more important. the more you stretch things out. the key thing people are miss -- i agree with rick, the economy is not that strong, but it is still growing steadily and valuations are so extreme that you know which way the money is going to go when things settle down. i just wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of that trade. >> stephanie, that's basically the way you feel. you have sort of opportunities out there. how do you see it, stephanie? >> i think what you want to do is use the volatility, use the declines, and go back to the companies that reported good third quarter earnings. go back to an ebay. >> stick to fundamentals. >> right. go back to starbucks. or you also can focus on some of the themes, right. housing is still in recovery mode and that -- i know it's well known, but if those sto
as soon as boehner and obama walk out of the white house, which i believe they'll do at some stage over the next month, as soon as that happens, everything is going to flip the other way. i'd like to find a way to play the market, but i think for long-term investors, valuation gets more and more important. the more you stretch things out. the key thing people are miss -- i agree with rick, the economy is not that strong, but it is still growing steadily and valuations are so extreme that you...
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. >> creating jobs -- >> reporter: president obama and house speaker john boehner spoke on the phone wednesday but publicly are holding firm on their positions. the white house has made clear the country could go over the cliff if republicans refuse to raise taxes on the top 2% of american earners. >> to do that to 98% of the american people, because of an insistence that the wealthiest americans get a tax cut would be profoundly wrong. >> reporter: republican leaders say they will close loopholes and eliminate tax breaks but bush-era tax cuts must be extended to all americans. >> reporter: the standoff and debt concerns ryan. so much so, that he is the guy if the suit dancing gangnam style with former senator alan simpson. the group the can kicks back is working to get young people involved in fixing the debt crisis. >> we are trying to connect with our generation in a different way using humor to hook them in and get them to learn about this issue and understand how it affects their lives. >> reporter: the grassroots campaign wants to sign up more than 2 million people to push pres
. >> creating jobs -- >> reporter: president obama and house speaker john boehner spoke on the phone wednesday but publicly are holding firm on their positions. the white house has made clear the country could go over the cliff if republicans refuse to raise taxes on the top 2% of american earners. >> to do that to 98% of the american people, because of an insistence that the wealthiest americans get a tax cut would be profoundly wrong. >> reporter: republican leaders...
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i'm wondering if john boehner and barack obama got together, had their short conversation and say hey, why don't we characterize this as a curt, short, curt conversation. that will help you with your people. that will help -- didn't you love that? you know, we hear they talked, and they had a curt conversation. >> reporter: yeah. there is truth to that. >> exactly what both sides wanted to hear. >> reporter: no, there is truth to that. look, the white house is well aware that they can't -- you know, the one reason why there's not meetings here? that's bad for boehner. boehner can't be seen here on, quote, enemy territory cutting the deal. right? it has -- i mean, look. the semantics matter. you hate to admit that it does, but it does. and the settings matter. that's why you're not seeing a lot of meetings here. >> it does and there are a lot of republicans -- remember newt gingrich going over to the white house through the budget negotiations in the 1990s, and newt gingrich's own words getting his pockets picked by bill clinton. outnegotiated time and time again. so these things do ma
i'm wondering if john boehner and barack obama got together, had their short conversation and say hey, why don't we characterize this as a curt, short, curt conversation. that will help you with your people. that will help -- didn't you love that? you know, we hear they talked, and they had a curt conversation. >> reporter: yeah. there is truth to that. >> exactly what both sides wanted to hear. >> reporter: no, there is truth to that. look, the white house is well aware that...
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yes, there is a case in point where boehner and obama said there was progress that could be made towards a compromise. the markets turn around to 220 points on the dow. but on 20 points and the dow having been down 110 closed up 106 points. that's because john boehner said they could well be some progress on a compromise. that flies in the face of harry reid saying little progress is made. that is what is driving the u.s. markets and the global markets as well. the fed's beige book says there is a tepid growth. you have the housing market against that manufacturing and superstorm sandy. interesting stats expected out of the auto sectors. this could be good news. we think there may ab a pace of somewhere in the region of 15.2 million cars sold in november. the fact is that americans got very old fleet of cars. the average age of car now is 11 years old. it's 20% of the cars on the road are 16 years old. maybe renewing the cars is a big factor. great numbers for abercrombie and fitch, the shares are up 15%. this is a very well received set of numbers. >> you mentioned the abercrombie stuff
yes, there is a case in point where boehner and obama said there was progress that could be made towards a compromise. the markets turn around to 220 points on the dow. but on 20 points and the dow having been down 110 closed up 106 points. that's because john boehner said they could well be some progress on a compromise. that flies in the face of harry reid saying little progress is made. that is what is driving the u.s. markets and the global markets as well. the fed's beige book says there...
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this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of 2011. the parties are so polarized and partisans polarized this is a problem. >> i keep saying we need a presidential historian or hostage negotiator. somebody could say we've been at stalemates before, gotten over it, shut down the government in '96. tip o'neill and ronald reagan managed to solve problems and get along. listen to what john mccain said about what we need here. >> it's time now to sit across the table from one another, rather than -- in the way they did with ronald reagan and the way you get things done in washington. >> the way they did with ronald reagan and get things done in washington. you sit together and figure it out. they were at a holiday party they didn't talk to each other. they're issuing sort of statements and rebuttals and saying i'm not going to budge. >> negotiation by press release. this is not how things get done in washington and part of the problem of the growing incivility in washington. people don't work together
this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of 2011. the parties are so polarized and partisans polarized this is a problem. >> i keep saying we need a presidential historian or hostage negotiator. somebody could say we've been at stalemates before, gotten over it, shut down the government in '96. tip o'neill and ronald reagan managed to solve problems and get along. listen to what john mccain said about what we need here....
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obama is asking for 1.6 trillion. you can see somewhere in the middle as a possible negotiating or compromise point. >> we should remind everybody the president has been talking about entitlement reform for four years. "the washington post" reminded them this might ab good time to lead because you're the president. martha: it feels like there is a real opportunity here for some history-making leadership and we'll see if we get it. thank you so much. mary catherine, juan. >> go dogs. bill: here is jon sko*t. "happening nowscott, "happening now" now rolls your way. jon: we are awaiting comments from president obama on the so-called fiscal cliff, the president unveiling his bid in negotiations over the deal. republicans not impressed. in fact they are darn bad. we'll get into that. plus, planning on being a couch potato this weekend? you might want to hear about a new study first, could your couch be making you sick? a new leader from mexico but some of the same old problems, violence on the border, any new answers? comi
obama is asking for 1.6 trillion. you can see somewhere in the middle as a possible negotiating or compromise point. >> we should remind everybody the president has been talking about entitlement reform for four years. "the washington post" reminded them this might ab good time to lead because you're the president. martha: it feels like there is a real opportunity here for some history-making leadership and we'll see if we get it. thank you so much. mary catherine, juan....
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jon: john boehner, the speaker of the house, blasting president obama's proposals to solve the fiscal cliff crisis, saying that the president wants to impose $1.6 trillion in new taxes and only about $400 billion in cuts. as you heard, the speaker says that the republicans are open to new revenues. they would like to achieve it by closing tax loopholes. that does not seem to be the way the direction is headed, and not a very optimistic assessment there from the speaker of the house, but we will continue to see which direction this all goes throughout the day and on through the month of december, i'm sure. let's get back into our discussion about what this msnbc anchor said with our news watch panel. judy miller is here. judy, to call somebody like senator mccain, who has a lengthy record of public service and his wartime service before that, to refer to him as, what, an old white guy who's losing his grip on power -- >> right. jon: that sounds racist in and of itself to me. >> it certainly sounded bigoted. and if anybody had said an old black guy, can you imagine what the outcry would
jon: john boehner, the speaker of the house, blasting president obama's proposals to solve the fiscal cliff crisis, saying that the president wants to impose $1.6 trillion in new taxes and only about $400 billion in cuts. as you heard, the speaker says that the republicans are open to new revenues. they would like to achieve it by closing tax loopholes. that does not seem to be the way the direction is headed, and not a very optimistic assessment there from the speaker of the house, but we will...
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but, of course, everybody is talking about shared sacrifice from president obama to john boehner to governor herbert of utah. their version of fixing the fiscal cliff is that acceptable shared version. >> reed wilson, thank you for being with me. i appreciate it. we're going to be right back on msnbc right after this. [ female announcer ] you know exactly what it takes to make them feel better. ♪ you make me happy [ female announcer ] that's why you choose children's tylenol. the same brand your mom trusted for you when you were young. ♪ how much i love you [ humming ] [ female announcer ] children's tylenol, the #1 brand of pain and fever relief recommended by pediatricians and used by moms decade after decade. [ humming ] bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel amer
but, of course, everybody is talking about shared sacrifice from president obama to john boehner to governor herbert of utah. their version of fixing the fiscal cliff is that acceptable shared version. >> reed wilson, thank you for being with me. i appreciate it. we're going to be right back on msnbc right after this. [ female announcer ] you know exactly what it takes to make them feel better. ♪ you make me happy [ female announcer ] that's why you choose children's tylenol. the same...
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Dec 7, 2012
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boehner needs to get a told of this pr machine and paint obama as the one who is holding the country hostage. he wants to talk about holding the middle class hostage. no, it's him holding the entire country hostage and our kids hostage to his reckless spending and cynical refusal to enter the entitlement reform game. >> i don't even want to hear more about taxes. juan, shaking your head. >> i hear you, gentlemen. you guys are wonderful. merry christmas. but sean you said hyperpartisanship, and david talks about inflexibility. you know, and i'm thinking to myself, gee, where have i seen this before? i see it on the republican side, and i think most of the american people when you look he about policy, i'm not just -- >> tell me where obama is giving in this debate at all. he said he wanted to find a middle ground. where has he reached out to republicans? can you tell me. >> sure, i'm going to do it on your terms. he's already cut more than $1 trillion in spending in this budget. >> no. >> smoke and mirrors. >> he has to deal with debt -- >> $6 trillion now obama debt. >> juan, can you
boehner needs to get a told of this pr machine and paint obama as the one who is holding the country hostage. he wants to talk about holding the middle class hostage. no, it's him holding the entire country hostage and our kids hostage to his reckless spending and cynical refusal to enter the entitlement reform game. >> i don't even want to hear more about taxes. juan, shaking your head. >> i hear you, gentlemen. you guys are wonderful. merry christmas. but sean you said...
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president obama put out his plan. the republicans rejected it. the republicans put out a plan yesterday, and the president rejected it. what should we make of this? >> reporter: well, right now it shows at least publicly both sides are fully entrenched in not wanting to budge on some very specific issues. the president wanting taxes to go up on wealthy americans, those extension only for middle class americans. republicans saying no way at all, and beyond that while they might have some agreement on other issues, those remain the sticking points. i did hear from an administration official a short time ago who told me no update whatsoever when i asked whether or not there would be some counteroffer, i guess, the counteroffer from republicans. so that remains the big sticking point, and it appears that until there's some movement on that, there really won't be an agreement. >> and before you go, i understand speaker boehner and the president were at a holiday reception and, well, what happened? >> well, you know, as you know what happens every year
president obama put out his plan. the republicans rejected it. the republicans put out a plan yesterday, and the president rejected it. what should we make of this? >> reporter: well, right now it shows at least publicly both sides are fully entrenched in not wanting to budge on some very specific issues. the president wanting taxes to go up on wealthy americans, those extension only for middle class americans. republicans saying no way at all, and beyond that while they might have some...
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boehner and obama have met before. the summer of 2011. they put a lot of specifics on paper. when boehner coudn g backing from his conference. >> how close is this toth i didn't see this in advance. this was reallyop b. th tn goatn.3 > dl nde. s >> there has been progress. >> right now i would say we're nowhere.3 irey ssisc. paul begala, david frum, former adviser to president george w. bush. gentlemen, nice to have you both. david, let's start with you. depending on who you listen to, it's either going great or not going well at all. they're either optimistic or completely pessimistic. which is it? >> i feel about this whole process as a basketball nonfan, i feel about basketball, which is start it 100-100 and play for five minutes to get it over with. but i think we also need to take a step back and realize just how lunatic this whole process is. what the united states does not need right now is either spending cuts or tax increases. what we should be thinking about is how to get growth. instead of the mishandling of the deal in 2011, we have to pretend that we have what is
boehner and obama have met before. the summer of 2011. they put a lot of specifics on paper. when boehner coudn g backing from his conference. >> how close is this toth i didn't see this in advance. this was reallyop b. th tn goatn.3 > dl nde. s >> there has been progress. >> right now i would say we're nowhere.3 irey ssisc. paul begala, david frum, former adviser to president george w. bush. gentlemen, nice to have you both. david, let's start with you. depending on who...
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president obama warned that republicans must accept higher taxes on the rich or watch everyone get a tax hike. >> that's sort of like the lump of coal you get for christmas. that's a scrooge christmas. >> so, what is next? george stephanopoulos is going to sit down with the treasury secretary tim geithner for a reality check on these negotiations, this sunday on "this week." >>> and we head overseas now to israel, and the provocative new announcement there. officials in israel saying they will build 3,000 new israeli homes in jerusalem. the palestinians condemned the announcement. it comes on the heels of that historic vote by the united nations, making palestine an observer state, over the objections of israel and the u.s. >>> and nearby in egypt, tahrir square again filling up with protesters, more than 100,000 at times today, chanting against their president, mohamed morsi, claiming he jammed through a draft of a new constitution, which strengthens the muslim brotherhood against christians and liberals. critics say it would curb the rights of women and freedom of speech. >>> and b
president obama warned that republicans must accept higher taxes on the rich or watch everyone get a tax hike. >> that's sort of like the lump of coal you get for christmas. that's a scrooge christmas. >> so, what is next? george stephanopoulos is going to sit down with the treasury secretary tim geithner for a reality check on these negotiations, this sunday on "this week." >>> and we head overseas now to israel, and the provocative new announcement there....
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we know president obama and speaker boehner spoke on the phone last night, talked a lot about that even though we don't know what they discussed. the first read team says a fiscal cliff deal is in sight. what do they think the big deal will be? join our conversation on twitter. find us at @tamronhall a and @newsnation. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. those antacids aren't working. oh no, not that, not here! [ male announcer ] antacids don't relieve gas. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. gas-x. the gas xperts. now's a good time to think about your options. are you looking for a plan that really meets your needs? and your budget? as you probabl
we know president obama and speaker boehner spoke on the phone last night, talked a lot about that even though we don't know what they discussed. the first read team says a fiscal cliff deal is in sight. what do they think the big deal will be? join our conversation on twitter. find us at @tamronhall a and @newsnation. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or...
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obama said i wanted it extended for 2012. republicans at first said no, and boehner had to say no with them. when the deadline came last christmas, around last christmas republicans started to panic but polls showed people would blame them. all of a sudden those voices said let's not have this fight now. >> he's banking on that happening. >> that has to happen again. >> i spent some time working the phones today, because it's interesting to see both sides and by both sides i mean these guys. and then gop establishment guys sort of explain what's going on here today. from the perspective of these so-called dissidents as roll call is calling them. >> that's roll call. from their perspective they're punished for being too conservative. as you pointed out, steve, they're being punished in their minds for going too far to the right of people like speaker boehner. i talked to tim hul's camp, one of the congressman removed from two questicommittees. he said, look, this is something that establishment republicans do. how often do you
obama said i wanted it extended for 2012. republicans at first said no, and boehner had to say no with them. when the deadline came last christmas, around last christmas republicans started to panic but polls showed people would blame them. all of a sudden those voices said let's not have this fight now. >> he's banking on that happening. >> that has to happen again. >> i spent some time working the phones today, because it's interesting to see both sides and by both sides i...
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comes down to john boehner and president obama. i will reed an excerpt from pegeny noonan in the "wall street journal" would disagree with melissa this is not the old-school politic s yore. beggy writes -- when fire logs burned without fire starters and apple pies were baked in everybody's home. >> not sold in costco. >> if only everything could be like ronald reagan. >> and tip o'neill. >> the thing is, and i think it is true that -- i know peggy noonan likes the grand er and everything grand, but the senate isn't so relevant. this being a budget and tax bill they can do reconciliation. this is a house problem. the difference is that tip o'neill actually had influence with his caucus. john boehner has precious influence with the part of his caucus the most recalcitrant on these issues. in the current lame duck congress john boehner still has the same problem, resistant people who will not go along with a deal so the question is, whether or not he can deliver even the 20 or 25 votes he needs if pelosi did what she always does and d
comes down to john boehner and president obama. i will reed an excerpt from pegeny noonan in the "wall street journal" would disagree with melissa this is not the old-school politic s yore. beggy writes -- when fire logs burned without fire starters and apple pies were baked in everybody's home. >> not sold in costco. >> if only everything could be like ronald reagan. >> and tip o'neill. >> the thing is, and i think it is true that -- i know peggy noonan likes...
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president obama and john boehner did the gangnam style, your approval ratings might go up. "outfront" tonight, tom mcclintock of the budget committee. thank you for taking the time. we just showed a lot of your colleagues going home on a wednesday night after working a three-day week. obviously, that's an image that frustrates so many americans. why are people going home before getting this done? >> well, unfortunately, we're not using the standard process where the house passes its version, the is that the passes its version, then a conference committee is very good in revolving impasses like this between the two houses. unfortunately, none of that's being used and i think that's one of the reasons why these things are blocking down now so regularly. we've abandoned a process that works very well when we use it. >> john boehner presented a plan to the president and in that plan, he put $800 billion in revenue from the wealthy on the table. he said he would close loopholes and those people would pay more money. you were a member of the tea party caucus and some in your cauc
president obama and john boehner did the gangnam style, your approval ratings might go up. "outfront" tonight, tom mcclintock of the budget committee. thank you for taking the time. we just showed a lot of your colleagues going home on a wednesday night after working a three-day week. obviously, that's an image that frustrates so many americans. why are people going home before getting this done? >> well, unfortunately, we're not using the standard process where the house passes...